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0 1

http://abrx6wcpzkfpwxb5eb2wsra2wnkrv2macdtkpnrepswodz5jxd4schyd.onion/index.xhtml

http://63gxkfc4hlcbxrdoepw2i2hyxai5qkxmi636ag3y7sf5tq3imoya.b32.i2p/index.xhtml

Have anything to say? Think there's something that should be improved? Want to help? Talk about it!

A few new pages are planned, but I don't really want to start them until the existing ones are more complete.

uhh hi? im new here, idk what to do

anony2022lol

uhh hi? im new here, idk what to do

Well this is a discussion topic for ShadowWiki and NAMAC, I suppose if there's anything you like to add/comment about this would be the place to do it. :)

shadow
anony2022lol

uhh hi? im new here, idk what to do

Well this is a discussion topic for ShadowWiki and NAMAC, I suppose if there's anything you like to add/comment about this would be the place to do it. :)

Knew any place for paranormal, psychic, telekinesis, magic and stuffs?

AbysmalVoid
shadow
anony2022lol

uhh hi? im new here, idk what to do

Well this is a discussion topic for ShadowWiki and NAMAC, I suppose if there's anything you like to add/comment about this would be the place to do it. :)

Knew any place for paranormal, psychic, telekinesis, magic and stuffs?

Only place I know of would be maybe an / x / board on some chan, ie 8kun or whatever.

Suggestion. Can you make it possible to contribute using regular markdown (like bold text**, # header, etc.) instead of having to use NAMAC? Or at least make a markdown to NAMAC convertor? I'd contribute (need to create a codeberg) if it was easy.

Also for the hosting page are you only going to compare VPS providers or also services like neocities, codeberg pages, etc.

What other pages do you plan on creating?

undercoverman

Suggestion. Can you make it possible to contribute using regular markdown (like bold text**, # header, etc.) instead of having to use NAMAC? Or at least make a markdown to NAMAC convertor? I'd contribute (need to create a codeberg) if it was easy.

This would be kinda difficult as regular markdown has nothing analogous to webography that I know of, but that's an interesting idea. A better compiler would be good, the current one has a ton of memory errors, but this would be an immense undertaking to write.

The easiest and simplest thing to do would be accept contributions here or via XMPP. Writing the text and the tables is a lot of it. By the way, have you seen the tutorial for NAMAC?: https://codeberg.org/anonymous/NAMAC/src/branch/master/README.md

undercoverman

Also for the hosting page are you only going to compare VPS providers or also services like neocities, codeberg pages, etc.

That's a good idea actually, and should be done at some point.

undercoverman

What other pages do you plan on creating?

One for forums (like this one, others, and software) and reddit-style (lemmy, voat etc) whatever, social media (TWTXT, Mastodon, GNU Social, HubZilla etc), OS (eComStation, AmigaOS, distros, BSD etc) and hardware (x86_64/Intel ME, ARM, POWER, RISC-V, MIPS, SPARC, ELUBRUS or whatever etc) are the main ones on my radar right now. Also an article just about XMPP, how to set it up with darknet etc. Oh and "mobile OSs" could be moved to the OS article.

Also things that need doing:

- Email article needs updating, expanding

- IM article needs progress

- Continuing work on the hosting article

- I don't currently know enough about mobilecomms to continue further on that one

- Maybe some more community-related info should be worked in

- There's some browsers missing

Operating systems, specifically Linux distros, wouldn't be easy to rate since most of them are the same and we all have different use cases (e.g. rolling release is good for desktops whereas fixed release is better for servers). My advice, only rate the distros that actually matter and not a dozen Ubuntu/Debian/Arch forks with a slightly different desktop.

Debian/Devuan are okay except for the outdated packages, Artix is good except for some of the ISOs which install a lot of shit like Midori (web browser) and the cloudflared website, though the gitea repo isn't cloudflared so it's not a huge issue. Void does a lot of things right but the repos are shit (lots of outdated, missing, vulnerable, broken packages compared to Arch). I have not used Alpine, Gentoo, Guix, or any of the BSDs long enough.

I don't know much about hardware though I do know about some alternative manufacturers (purism, system76, etc.) but all their products are very expensive. You could make desktop OS and hardware one article like with mobile communications. Here are some interesting websites:

https://h-node.org/

https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability (will not load without disabling CSS)

For instant messengers, you should add to the table what encryption is used and how much metadata is stored (signal doesn't store a lot but XMPP stores tons of it). For XMPP, maybe write about how most clients leak information like timezone and OS (I found out about this not long before digdeeper wrote about it).

For darknets, specifically VPNs, maybe add whether the providers require any personal information (Mullvad and IVPN do not, don't know about the others) and whether they support openvpn, wiregurad, bitmask, etc.

Maybe add these to the links at the end of the browser article:

https://divestos.org/index.php?page=browsers (only covers mobile browsers)

https://privacytests.org/ (only rates unmodified browsers and doesn't include some lesser known ones like Pale Moon, Falkon, and Links, though he did talk about adding some of them: https://github.com/arthuredelstein/privacytests.org/issues/66)

undercoverman

Operating systems, specifically Linux distros, wouldn't be easy to rate since most of them are the same and we all have different use cases (e.g. rolling release is good for desktops whereas fixed release is better for servers). My advice, only rate the distros that actually matter and not a dozen Ubuntu/Debian/Arch forks with a slightly different desktop.

Debian/Devuan are okay except for the outdated packages, Artix is good except for some of the ISOs which install a lot of shit like Midori (web browser) and the cloudflared website, though the gitea repo isn't cloudflared so it's not a huge issue. Void does a lot of things right but the repos are shit (lots of outdated, missing, vulnerable, broken packages compared to Arch). I have not used Alpine, Gentoo, Guix, or any of the BSDs long enough.

My thoughts exactly, I'm not looking to compete with DistroWatch. I forgot to mention a finance article would be good to, and like with crypto (which would be an aspect of said article) you can't hope to list all the thousands of them without a team basically. So the focus would be on the privacy coins and a few note worthy ones, and same with distros, the most well-known ones and a few note-worthy ones.

undercoverman

I don't know much about hardware though I do know about some alternative manufacturers (purism, system76, etc.) but all their products are very expensive. You could make desktop OS and hardware one article like with mobile communications. Here are some interesting websites:

https://h-node.org/

https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability (will not load without disabling CSS)

Looks like good resources for when that article comes around for doing! Also yeah, cover ones like Raptor Computing, SiFive, Apollo etc (even if I don't know much about a given one, they deserve mention).

undercoverman

For instant messengers, you should add to the table what encryption is used and how much metadata is stored (signal doesn't store a lot but XMPP stores tons of it). For XMPP, maybe write about how most clients leak information like timezone and OS (I found out about this not long before digdeeper wrote about it).

The encryption one is a good idea. Determining how much meta-data a given one stores could prove difficult. Signal is AIUI based on XMPP so I don't see how it's not getting similar amounts of metadata, even if they supposedly choose not to store it.

undercoverman

For darknets, specifically VPNs, maybe add whether the providers require any personal information (Mullvad and IVPN do not, don't know about the others) and whether they support openvpn, wiregurad, bitmask, etc.

Those are also good ideas, but like the software article it was thrown together to give people a basic idea, and needs fine tuning later (unless someone else wants to do it sooner).

undercoverman

Maybe add these to the links at the end of the browser article:

https://divestos.org/index.php?page=browsers (only covers mobile browsers)

https://privacytests.org/ (only rates unmodified browsers and doesn't include some lesser known ones like Pale Moon, Falkon, and Links, though he did talk about adding some of them: https://github.com/arthuredelstein/privacytests.org/issues/66)

Looks good, will do.

shadow

My thoughts exactly, I'm not looking to compete with DistroWatch. I forgot to mention a finance article would be good to, and like with crypto (which would be an aspect of said article) you can't hope to list all the thousands of them without a team basically. So the focus would be on the privacy coins and a few note worthy ones, and same with distros, the most well-known ones and a few note-worthy ones.

Looks like good resources for when that article comes around for doing! Also yeah, cover ones like Raptor Computing, SiFive, Apollo etc (even if I don't know much about a given one, they deserve mention).

The encryption one is a good idea. Determining how much meta-data a given one stores could prove difficult. Signal is AIUI based on XMPP so I don't see how it's not getting similar amounts of metadata, even if they supposedly choose not to store it.

Those are also good ideas, but like the software article it was thrown together to give people a basic idea, and needs fine tuning later (unless someone else wants to do it sooner).

I wasn't expecting you to compete with DistroWatch or really anything. Like I said you should make it easier for others to contribute and not make us use NAMAC and maybe you'd have more people contribute (I know I would) to the wiki and help keep it up-to-date.

Listing a few notable distros is probably the best thing. We don't need to encourage people to use different forks of Debian/Ubuntu or Arch. Just recommend the independent distros (Debian, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Arch, Gentoo, Slackware, Alpine, Guix, NixOS, Void) and maybe a few forks of those that matter (Artix, Devuan, Whonix, maybe Parabola, though there's no reason to recommend that over Artix unless you wanted a fully libre distro, and when I ran it inside a VM a while ago, the installer did not work, shame since it would have been my ideal distro).

Have you thought about doing an article about desktop environments and window managers? You could put this in the operating systems or software article or just make it it's own article. You could talk about where to find themes (because Pling does not load at all without JS which is stupid) and Xorg vs Wayland. I always liked IceWM but it doesn't support wayland. i3-gaps is pretty good to and sway is pretty much the same thing, though I haven't used the latter, I just heard about it. I've also heard of labwc which is supposed to be Openbox for wayland.

Metadata would be hard but yes encryption is a good idea. I wouldn't put whether encryption is used by default, just if it can be used, because then you'd be pandering to casuals and shilling Signal over XMPP just because it's more user-friendly.

One other thing, and I don't know if this is possible, but you might want to consider making this forum invite-only. This would keep out spammers, scammers, and shit, but it'd also make it harder for legit users to make suggestions because then they'd either have to request an invite via XMPP or create a codeberg.

undercoverman

I wasn't expecting you to compete with DistroWatch or really anything. Like I said you should make it easier for others to contribute and not make us use NAMAC and maybe you'd have more people contribute (I know I would) to the wiki and help keep it up-to-date.

Best I could do (and this would take quite a while to write) would be to make a web interface (no Jabba of course) allowing editing of existing elements or something. Like I mentioned before, regular Markdown just doesn't do what Nano-Markdown does, and Nano-Markdown is really just an XHTML file but with some stuff in there that gets converted to other things that take longer to type out manually.

For example (from webography):

T: gplat2020civrights
L: https://www.gp.org/social_justice/
L: https://web.archive.org/web/20211125070743/https://www.gp.org/social_justice#sjCivilRights
N: II. Social Justice - gp.org
D: ?

And (from uspol.nama):

			<td>For${gplat2020civrights}</td>

Becomes this (from uspol.xhtml):

			<td>For<sup><a href="#s21">[21]</a></sup></td>

And (from uspol.xhtml):

					        <li id="s21">21. II. Social Justice - gp.org, ? <a href="https://www.gp.org/social_justice/">https://www.gp.org/social_justice/</a> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20211125070743/https://www.gp.org/social_justice#sjCivilRights">https://web.archive.org/web/20211125070743/https://www.gp.org/social_justice#sjCivilRights</a></li>

The <li id="s21"> is pasted into the first:

	sources {
		{footnotes}
	}

You might think "Why not just do that manually?". It would be easier that way if you only have to do <5 of these, but the uspol article has so far 112 sources, many of them re-used. So getting rid of or changing NAMAC would be the most tedious work possible. Initially it was XHTML only, but after the first several sources it got so tedious and I got so tired of repeating the same tags over and over again that a list (like what the "webography" file is) became almost a necessity to keep it straight (also I was trying to manually number them correctly).

If you can think of someway this (among others) could be made analogous or easier than it currently is I'd be interested to hear it. A lot of inspiration came from LaTeX and groff (while I hadn't ever really used them beyond testing, I watched Luke Smith's tutorials of them).

I'd be open to answering any questions or even trying to teach anyone how to use it. But short of that I'll have to put together some sort of CGI script that allows table and case editing. It won't change everything, because the webography will still be the webography, the template the template etc, but it would allow easy editing of certain parts.

Another possible option would be a converter that is able to convert XHTML to NAMAC and back and forth (something Distaza has talked about), but that would I think require a near-total re-write as it would require thinking about how each part is done differently.

undercoverman

Listing a few notable distros is probably the best thing. We don't need to encourage people to use different forks of Debian/Ubuntu or Arch. Just recommend the independent distros (Debian, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Arch, Gentoo, Slackware, Alpine, Guix, NixOS, Void) and maybe a few forks of those that matter (Artix, Devuan, Whonix, maybe Parabola, though there's no reason to recommend that over Artix unless you wanted a fully libre distro, and when I ran it inside a VM a while ago, the installer did not work, shame since it would have been my ideal distro).

Parabola has an installer? I always figured it was installed like Arch used to be, manually. I know Arch recently added an (optional) installer though. Parabola only officially supports OpenRC as the init as far as I know.

Also yes, just mentioning what is notable would be good in terms of distros. When it becomes to alternative OSs though, I wanna go all in.

undercoverman

Have you thought about doing an article about desktop environments and window managers? You could put this in the operating systems or software article or just make its own article. You could talk about where to find themes (because Pling does not load at all without JS which is stupid) and Xorg vs Wayland. I always liked IceWM but it doesn't support wayland. i3-gaps is pretty good to and sway is pretty much the same thing, though I haven't used the latter, I just heard about it. I've also heard of labwc which is supposed to be Openbox for wayland.

Yes, it would be part of the OS article I think. I only used Wayland once and thought it had very poor performance versus Xorg. Sway is the only compositor that sounds any good IMO (would of course list the others).

undercoverman

Metadata would be hard but yes encryption is a good idea. I wouldn't put whether encryption is used by default, just if it can be used, because then you'd be pandering to casuals and shilling Signal over XMPP just because it's more user-friendly.

Yes.

undercoverman

One other thing, and I don't know if this is possible, but you might want to consider making this forum invite-only. This would keep out spammers, scammers, and shit, but it'd also make it harder for legit users to make suggestions because then they'd either have to request an invite via XMPP or create a codeberg.

It was actually invite-only in the beginning (as in, all accounts had to be "allowed" to post), however almost no one made posts. If they did, they would make posts and then leave and forget the account existed. My preferred solution would be more moderators to delete/ban the offending bots.

It's a bit tedious though, you have to uncheck all the privileges on a given user, write "banned" for a description, then hit save. Likewise, for the removal of posts, I generally middle-click on the trashcan for every post and then run through all the tabs hitting "delete". If you know SQLite there's probably an easier, faster way to do this, but I haven't gotten around to that.

Also this forum has a sad secret: it requires a User Agent to log in. Any UA works, but it is required. I haven't gotten around to asking the AsmBB dev about it yet, though, as it is something I would like to remove. He was very helpful and getting rid of JS which is enabled but not required by default AsmBB (you remove it by deleting certain lines from the themes).

But if you are interested in moderating let me know. I had appointed a few other people to be mods but they aren't ever on, probably because it has been totally dead until recently where it has become just low activity (lol).

shadow

Best I could do (and this would take quite a while to write) would be to make a web interface (no Jabba of course) allowing editing of existing elements or something.

That could work but would it be worth it? If it's going to take a long time then maybe it would be easier for me or anyone else to just learn NAMAC, but having a web interface that allowed editing things easily without having to know NAMAC would be nice.

shadow

Parabola has an installer? I always figured it was installed like Arch used to be, manually. I know Arch recently added an (optional) installer though. Parabola only officially supports OpenRC as the init as far as I know.

Also yes, just mentioning what is notable would be good in terms of distros. When it becomes to alternative OSs though, I wanna go all in.

Parabola did have a Systemd version but I never tried it for obvious reasons. For alternative operating systems:

9front http://9front.org

ArcaOS (not open source) https://www.arcanoae.com/arcaos/

FreeDOS https://www.freedos.org/

Genode https://genode.org/

Haiku https://www.haiku-os.org/

MorphOS (not open source) http://www.morphos-team.net/

OpenVMS (not open source) https://www.vmssoftware.com/

Plan 9 https://p9f.org/

ReactOS https://www.reactos.org/

Redox https://www.redox-os.org/

RISC OS http://riscosopen.org/

SerenityOS https://www.serenityos.org/

shadow

But if you are interested in moderating let me know. I had appointed a few other people to be mods but they aren't ever on, probably because it has been totally dead until recently where it has become just low activity (lol).

If it's just me, you, and some spammers, it's still pretty dead. I don't care to moderate right now and I don't think I should be trusted with that.

anony2022lol

uhh hi? im new here, idk what to do

Idk how to post

J.S.howls
anony2022lol

uhh hi? im new here, idk what to do

Idk how to post

I responded to you in the Rules thread.

undercoverman

That could work but would it be worth it? If it's going to take a long time then maybe it would be easier for me or anyone else to just learn NAMAC, but having a web interface that allowed editing things easily without having to know NAMAC would be nice.

It would take at least a week or two to write, but I'm busy with some other stuff right now. If you want to learn just let me know I can help with anything you might not understand.

undercoverman

Parabola did have a Systemd version but I never tried it for obvious reasons. For alternative operating systems:

9front http://9front.org

ArcaOS (not open source) https://www.arcanoae.com/arcaos/

FreeDOS https://www.freedos.org/

Genode https://genode.org/

Haiku https://www.haiku-os.org/

MorphOS (not open source) http://www.morphos-team.net/

OpenVMS (not open source) https://www.vmssoftware.com/

Plan 9 https://p9f.org/

ReactOS https://www.reactos.org/

Redox https://www.redox-os.org/

RISC OS http://riscosopen.org/

SerenityOS https://www.serenityos.org/

There's also 9atom, HarveyOS and I think 9legacy (?) in terms of "9" derivatives.

eComStation is an OS/2 derivative that also inspired ArcaOS.

AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS are all in the "Amiga" family.

And I'm sure there's more, but that would be a start.

undercoverman

If it's just me, you, and some spammers, it's still pretty dead. I don't care to moderate right now and I don't think I should be trusted with that.

Understandable. I was sort of joking about the activity part anyway. The original digdeeper chats were dead for at least 2 years, now it's so active it split into two communities.

Hey!

First of all I wanted to inform you that the clearnet mirror of Shadow Wiki is down as of rn, your TOR hidden service works fine though.

I really like Shadow Wiki, the minimalist design (XTHML + CSS, no JS) and just the whole concept. I'm glad that you try to help people achieve better security and privacy.

I have seen that you have added badges to other people's site and I wanted to ask if you could add mine as well. I host my website on my homeserver, the clearnet mirror is served by a VPS in Switzerland, I don't actually host anything there, I just use SSH tunneling so I don't expose the public IP of my homeserver. My website has a TOR and an I2P hidden service as well. I host multiple privacy friendly instances (Invidious, Nitter, Wikiless etc.) and I host my own meta search engine as well that I made in PHP (https://github.com/hnhx/librex). I also offer a small static webhosting service. My website is written in XHTML + CSS and ofc there is no JS used, all of the things that I host work completely fine without JS and all of my instances have a TOR and an I2P hidden service as well.

Clearnet: https://beparanoid.de

Tor hidden service: http://prnoid54e44a4bduq5due64jkk7wcnkxcp5kv3juncm7veptjcqudgyd.onion/

I2P hidden service: http://lq5jt6adwj7vcxo5qi4ct567qltrxhfc5odwuogfl7szgrlclxda.b32.i2p/

You can find the badge on the contact section.

Thanks a lot for making Shadow Wiki!

beparanoid

Hey!

First of all I wanted to inform you that the clearnet mirror of Shadow Wiki is down as of rn, your TOR hidden service works fine though.

Ah yeah, thanks for reminding me I need to talk to the person who runs that.

beparanoid

I really like Shadow Wiki, the minimalist design (XTHML + CSS, no JS) and just the whole concept. I'm glad that you try to help people achieve better security and privacy.

I have seen that you have added badges to other people's site and I wanted to ask if you could add mine as well. I host my website on my homeserver, the clearnet mirror is served by a VPS in Switzerland, I don't actually host anything there, I just use SSH tunneling so I don't expose the public IP of my homeserver. My website has a TOR and an I2P hidden service as well. I host multiple privacy friendly instances (Invidious, Nitter, Wikiless etc.) and I host my own meta search engine as well that I made in PHP (https://github.com/hnhx/librex). I also offer a small static webhosting service. My website is written in XHTML + CSS and ofc there is no JS used, all of the things that I host work completely fine without JS and all of my instances have a TOR and an I2P hidden service as well.

Clearnet: https://beparanoid.de

Tor hidden service: http://prnoid54e44a4bduq5due64jkk7wcnkxcp5kv3juncm7veptjcqudgyd.onion/

I2P hidden service: http://lq5jt6adwj7vcxo5qi4ct567qltrxhfc5odwuogfl7szgrlclxda.b32.i2p/

You can find the badge on the contact section.

Sounds cool, I'll check it out when I have time and see about adding it in the next update. So far I've only add links to sites of people I know from XMPP, with exception of movements (like anybrowser) or protocol type things (ie XMPP).

Welcome to the forums by the way!

beparanoid

Thanks a lot for making Shadow Wiki!

You're welcome! And thanks!

I recently noticed that the clearnet mirror of the shadowwiki on https://tilde.club/~acz/ went offline, so I started hosting my own mirror at https://m.13f0.net/shadow_wiki/

shokara

I recently noticed that the clearnet mirror of the shadowwiki on https://tilde.club/~acz/ went offline, so I started hosting my own mirror at https://m.13f0.net/shadow_wiki/

Awesome, thank you! I'll add it in next time I update.

shadow
beparanoid

Hey!

First of all I wanted to inform you that the clearnet mirror of Shadow Wiki is down as of rn, your TOR hidden service works fine though.

Ah yeah, thanks for reminding me I need to talk to the person who runs that.

beparanoid

I really like Shadow Wiki, the minimalist design (XTHML + CSS, no JS) and just the whole concept. I'm glad that you try to help people achieve better security and privacy.

I have seen that you have added badges to other people's site and I wanted to ask if you could add mine as well. I host my website on my homeserver, the clearnet mirror is served by a VPS in Switzerland, I don't actually host anything there, I just use SSH tunneling so I don't expose the public IP of my homeserver. My website has a TOR and an I2P hidden service as well. I host multiple privacy friendly instances (Invidious, Nitter, Wikiless etc.) and I host my own meta search engine as well that I made in PHP (https://github.com/hnhx/librex). I also offer a small static webhosting service. My website is written in XHTML + CSS and ofc there is no JS used, all of the things that I host work completely fine without JS and all of my instances have a TOR and an I2P hidden service as well.

Clearnet: https://beparanoid.de

Tor hidden service: http://prnoid54e44a4bduq5due64jkk7wcnkxcp5kv3juncm7veptjcqudgyd.onion/

I2P hidden service: http://lq5jt6adwj7vcxo5qi4ct567qltrxhfc5odwuogfl7szgrlclxda.b32.i2p/

You can find the badge on the contact section.

Sounds cool, I'll check it out when I have time and see about adding it in the next update. So far I've only add links to sites of people I know from XMPP, with exception of movements (like anybrowser) or protocol type things (ie XMPP).

Welcome to the forums by the way!

beparanoid

Thanks a lot for making Shadow Wiki!

You're welcome! And thanks!

Thanks! I hope you like my site, I will try to constantly add new content and I will host more services in the future, rn I host 10. Btw I moved the webring icon from the contacts page to the webring page, also its a GIF, so if you don't like that I can just convert it to a PNG if you want.

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